Episode 10: How Amazon Hired Me - Sr. Financial Analyst

Nick Dimitrov

Nick Dimitrov

October 31, 2020 · 32 min read

Episode 10: How Amazon Hired Me - Sr. Financial Analyst

So, just to tell us a little bit more about, maybe put us in a shotgun seat in your experiences. You interviewed with Amazon because that's what a lot of our listeners are going through as we speak. And I don't know how we best do this because you're such an unconventional, your experience with Amazon has been so unconventional. But maybe the next few questions, if you can give us the best of, the Reader's Digest version of, either of the two interview loops that maybe would work...


Episode Transcript

How Amazon Hired Me - Sr. Financial Analyst

Nick: Hi, everyone. Welcome to a brand-new episode of our podcast. I am thrilled, completely thrilled, to welcome our new guest today. I'll turn it over to him in a second. Let me provide a very brief overview before that. His name is Martin, and Martin is incredibly inspirational for me and I'm sure he will be to you in a little bit because he has been applying for a role at Amazon over quite some time. And the impressive piece is that he actually was hired at Amazon. He applied for a Level-6 Senior Financial Analyst position and he got an offer, and at that point he chose to proceed by following his entrepreneurial dream over joining Amazon. Unfortunately, the startup didn't work out necessarily, as often happens, and Martin went back to the drawing board and resumed applying to Amazon.

And this time he actually applied for a different functional position. He applied for a Senior Business Analyst position, another L6 very senior level position, as those of you who interview for Amazon know. And unfortunately, he was not hired during his second virtual on-site loop. But in typical Martin fashion, he continues to run up the hill and knock on the door. He is incredibly inspirational. He was one of the very early customers of our Premium Plus Package, and I'm just thrilled to have Martin on the program and without further delay, I'd like to welcome him. Welcome Martin.

Guest: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Nick.

Nick: Great. Could you, just to get us going, could you tell us about yourself, please?

Guest: Yeah. Just to offer some clarification there, my background was in financial services, out of college. I spent a decade both as an employee and also as an entrepreneur actually in private wealth management. Then after 10 years, for various reasons, I pivoted to corporate FP&A = the traditional Financial Planning & Analysis functions, financial forecasting, budgeting, business analytics for a hospitality company, and then I went to a SaaS start-up in the Telecom space for three years. I was the Vice President of Finance there, which is kind of a strange move. And then I was the VP of Finance for a struggling logistics startup, that I was able to turn around. And so, on the way out of the logistics startup, I was actually offered an SFA (Sr. Financial Analyst) role at Amazon. And I didn't quite turn it down to go to a startup. It was to be a CEO-in-residence at a startup accelerator in Asia. So, when I got the offer, I received the offer at the same time for something in Hong Kong where I was leading as a CEO non-technical co-founder for a bunch of deep tech projects. And now after this whole thing with the rejection for the SBA (Sr. Business Analyst) role, I'm now the co-founder and the head of product for a SaaS play, in the financial modeling space.

Nick: A lot of the people who listen to the podcast, a lot of the people we work with, they (as they should) hold Amazon in a very high regard. And it's so incredibly rare to talk to someone like you, who is completely courageous. Who has stormed inside the castle, only to continue to pursue a different dream, which is just as worthwhile.

So, just to tell us a little bit more about, maybe put us in a shotgun seat in your experiences. You interviewed with Amazon because that's what a lot of our listeners are going through as we speak. And I don't know how we best do this because you're such an unconventional, your experience with Amazon has been so unconventional. But maybe the next few questions, if you can give us the best of, the Reader's Digest version of, either of the two interview loops that maybe would work.

How did you how did you get involved with Amazon? How do they find you? Did you seek them out? What was the process there?

Guest: Yeah. So, after I left the SaaS startup that I've been at for three years, I applied for a Finance Manager role. At the time, I was quite frankly not knowledgeable about the leveling there, and that was too high of a role. And then a few months later when I was on vacation, they actually reached out to me and they sort of preempted any concerns. And they said, hey the leveling here is very unique. We'd be interested in having you interview for a Senior Financial Analyst role which is one rank down. And so that's how the conversation started.

And then after I did that thing in Asia, I contacted them and said, hey, there's been an issue right now with a project I'm working on; it ended, and I’d like to apply again. And they had me look at a bunch of Finance roles, but eventually they put me in an interview loop for a Senior Business Analyst for which I didn't even apply to. So that's how they found me the second time.

Nick: So, you're a known quantity to them now. So, how did you prepare for the interview? A lot of the people who are listening are just heads down now. And they're getting stressed and they're looking at all these different, they are reading all these resources online and they're looking at all these different pieces of advice to prepare. What did you do? And you obviously were very successful with them in your interview process. What did you do to prepare for your interviews?

Guest: Well before I met you, I kind of think the table stakes is reading through Amazon's Leadership Principles and trying to align a number of different stories in your background to each of those Leadership Principles, to make sure that you don't have any overlap. I think it's table stakes to look at Glassdoor, because if we know that 20% of the questions are technical in nature, I think it makes sense to look at the Senior Financial Analyst roles and the Finance Manager stories and see what kind of technical challenges were given.

I also read two of the most recent annual reports, in preparation for these interviews. After meeting you, we did the mock interviews and I think one of the really helpful takeaways there was the importance of being succinct in the answers. I think that's an error that I definitely needed Improvement on, when I first met you two years ago. And then I would say that before the SBA role that I looked at, it required an intermediate knowledge of computer languages as well as specific e-tail programs that I went and I got certified in those before the live loop.

Nick: Wow, that's so incredibly impressive. It sounds like you went above and beyond and looked at a bunch of annual reports to prepare for the financial position in addition to everything else, in addition to us working together. And then for the Senior Business Analyst position, you actually certified yourself in a bunch of different areas that you weren't exposed to in your previous or current finance life. I think that's a great take away how effectively, you cannot prepare enough. Just focus on being succinct. Focus on your behavioral stories and make sure that you double down on the Leadership Principles. But also, pay a fair amount of attention to your functional preparation as well. And then, the big interview day comes, or in your case the big two interview days. How did that go?

Guest: I think the first one went pretty well. Obviously, I was advantaged because of just combination of preparation and also because it was a finance person applying for a finance role. I don't think there was a single question in there, both on a technical level or a behavioral level that really surprised me.

Let's just say 25 questions asked by 5 different interviewers. There was probably only one experience that I thought was unusual or even remotely negative. I certainly hope that by answering this question, that it doesn't in any way taint the impression I want to give, or that I have of Amazon. One of the Finance Managers asked me to explain a financial model: what kind of analysis that I had done. And he had three or four follow-up questions, where I went through it. And at the end of it (after I boiled it down to the most detailed level of granularity possible), he, sort of, said: well, what analysis did you do and what were your assumptions. And I wasn't sure if this was a test of how I would behave under stress, or if it was some intentional gaslighting, for some reason. But I, sort of, said: well, these are the assumptions and can you clarify. And he, sort of, reprimanded me. He said: well, we used more than 3 minutes on this, so you have to be more concise. I didn't know what to make of it, because it was my first interview in the morning. But those fears, those concerns, faded away based on the s of the subsequent interviews.

For the SBA interview, the thing I noticed was that half the people I ran into, both at lunch and also in the real interviews, were very surprised after my experience as a CEO-in-residence for some tech startups, that I would want to work as (granted a senior) but still an individual contributor at a large company. And the exact words they used were: you have spoken to investors, you've changed company culture, you've done hiring, you've changed both the strategy and the product line of a company. Why would you ever want to come work at a large company as a cog in the wheel? Which was unexpected to be honest. And then the other half of the people said, we can understand your interest in Amazon, but what was your interest in this role. And I didn't want to lie to them. I said, actually I looked at a hundred Finance roles that all looked identical, and they put me in for a loop for the business role. I don't know how that played into the decision for the decline.

Nick: Yes. There is so much to unpack here. And I think something that potentially might have happened to others and people should potentially get ready for is: you just don't know what the incentive is when these interviewers are grilling you with these questions. And as you shared, in the first loop (the successful one, for the finance position) you spoke with this quite a bit antagonistic, by the sound of it, person who was maybe challenging you. And yet, the outcome was beneficial. And then in the second loop, maybe half of the people were more understanding of why you’re doing this. The other half or a significant majority, maybe were pushing to try to find what exactly drives you. And so on, and so forth. So, I think one of the takeaways here is: it doesn't necessarily, it's not very productive, to try to reverse-engineer what the person is asking. I think the underlying maybe piece that we can control, is to focus on the mental framework, to focus on your preparation. Dig in. Believe in yourself. Follow the mental outline of the behavioral, the STAR/SOAR responses. Try to do as best a job as possible in your functional responses, and see where the where the die falls.

So, how did you feel at the end of the interview? So, you walk out of this gauntlet of five or six hours’ worth of interviews. How did you feel?

Guest: I know that I complained about how the first Finance Manager had sort of grilled me, what I think was unnecessary. But I was pretty confident after five interviews. The last interview was with the Senior Finance Manager. And he actually had a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst). I had actually been through the first level of the program. I felt like I had demonstrated expertise, and I answered the questions pretty well about strategic changes I had made through financial data in the third and fourth interviews. And when I got to the fifth interview, he asked me some technical questions. They were straight out of the CFA textbook. And I was thinking like, thank God I had spent all those hours studying that stuff. Overall, I felt pretty strong. I mean you figure that out of 25 questions, doing well on, say, 23 - 24 of them, I expected an offer.

For the SBA role, it was really hard to read because the hiring manager, he seemed… it seemed like I had won his confidence and I kept it throughout the entire process. In fact, after the first phone screen he had told me that he was going to ask HR to skip the second phone screen. That gave me a positive signal. And then he also told me to start beefing up on my SQL, my Alteryx, my Tableau, my Data Viz (it’s a data visualization program). He told me to start looking at those on Google, just making sure that I understood what they were. And so, when I showed up to the interview, he was very surprised that I actually had gotten certified in some of these programs. I was ready to go, maybe not as proficient at some of his analysts that were already working there, but good enough to at least pull my weight or at least early fit the training. Actually, at the end of the interview (I hope that, I'm not outing someone for breaking protocol) we actually were kicked out of the room at 4 o'clock, and he actually found an empty room. He kept me for an extra hour because he wanted to learn more about me and run me through more SQL exercises. I felt like that played in my favor.

At the end of the day though, I still had some concerns about other people in the team. Maybe because I hadn’t done as well on a different technical question. There was one question I didn't do well on, which was on process Improvement. And now with the benefit of hindsight, I know we talked about preparing with certifications or reading other stuff, if Amazon has a lot of Six-Sigma listings on their job requirements, there's probably a good reason for that. And in hindsight, if I had taken the Six-Sigma program more seriously, I definitely would have hit that question on continuous improvement a lot better than I did.

Nick: It's remarkable again to hear you describe how the process went and how elaborate it was. At this point, I should I should insert the additional caveat that you did go through this incredible amount of preparatory work for the Senior Business Analyst role. And even if the final result wasn't a success, throughout the process and through the responses and the reaction of the potential hiring manager and I'm sure others on the loop, a lot of those people walked away incredibly impressed. People generally, an Amazon interviewer, generally wouldn't spend an extra hour with someone, if they didn't think that this person would be a future colleague of theirs.

So, I just can't stress enough how important it is to go the extra mile, similarly to what you've done. And certify yourself in a field that maybe you didn't know before, or go the extra mile. Because that reveals in an incredibly unambiguous fashion how you raise the bar on Learn and be Curious and Bias for Action and Invent and Simplify. And even if the outcome is not successful, I'm sure their commentary, in the feedback of the loop that speaks to that area, where you impressed the loop.

Let's go back to the initial loop, the Senior Financial Analyst loop. How did you celebrate, once you found out that you are hired?

Guest: I was applying for that very competitive, deep-tech accelerator in Asia, and I was simultaneously applying for Amazon. And, as you may recall, I was crossing my fingers that I would get one of them. I honestly thought it was wishful thinking to think that I would get both offers, especially at the same time. And so, I had to make a very simple but difficult decision to turn down Amazon. But to answer your question, the first thing I did was, I actually called my mother for personal and cultural reasons. My mom is always worried that I wouldn't have a, quote-unquote, real job at a stable company like a government, or a large tech company like a Facebook or a Google or whatnot. And she was very, very excited to hear that I got an offer that paid pretty well. But she was also very angry that I told her, in the same sentence, that I was going to turn them down, to go run a bunch of chaotic, dysfunctional, early-stage startups in another country.

Nick: Yeah. I can only imagine, I can only imagine. It's incredible. Again, you’re such a source of inspiration for a lot of us. Along those lines of unusual and unforeseen things, my next question is, could you please share with us what is a very memorable part of these interview loops, that that has stayed with you, whether it was usual or funny or unusual. What is one anecdote you could share with us?

Guest: You mean impressive in the sense of how I impressed the interviewer, or how Amazon impressed me.

Nick: Either one. I'll maybe start out here, and with your permission, I'll disclose this one piece of information of how, for the second loop, for the Senior Business Analyst loop, you were at the time in Asia. You were in Hong Kong and COVID was just descending on us, and you actually, I think, volunteered to fly over to Seattle and interview in-person instead of over a video connection. And they asked you, hey, Martin, could you please self-quarantine. And you said, yeah, no problem. And you actually quarantined yourself for a couple of weeks and then they took your word for it and then they interviewed you in-person. So, this is a pretty unusual set of events that happened. So, I'm just curious to find out what’s stayed with you.

Guest: Yeah. The whole COVID and this thing being overseas, I went over there to see the Demo Day, to support the people in my cohort. I was actually, I had a trip planned for both Hong Kong and Singapore, and I was, at the same time, applying to Amazon. And they say, yeah, we can take you at the end of February. And I, sort of, plotted out that I would spend 14 days in the West Coast. And in the beginning, they were honestly too polite to ask, but I wanted to do it voluntarily because I was scared to death what happens if I go there. I interview and the next day someone at Amazon reports a COVID case, it makes national news. Well, this is the guy that just came back from Asia. So, I made sure to self-quarantine, and then the day beforehand, they didn't say anything accusatory, they just asked me, hey, what's your situation been, have you been in Asia before. And I explain to them, it's been 14 days of self-quarantine.

In terms of impressive stuff, I would say that I'm continuously impressed with Amazon's professionalism and structure. It gives me a lot of confidence to be going after an employer that I know is trying to do their best to make a very subjective process structured and objective. That creates a lot of trust with me. And, in terms of funny, I'll say that working in a startup that doesn't have, I won't even say a bad culture, but in the beginning doesn't even have a clearly defined culture, where you hold people accountable to a certain way of thinking or behaving. It’s very problematic for a lot of reasons that I don't have to get into this call.

The thing is that while I was at two startups where I created cultural maxims or Leadership Principles. They were kind of akin to what you would see at an established company like a Netflix or an Amazon. And we changed the company by having people abide to this and it percolated into, obviously, our hiring process because how you spend money and how you make hiring decisions, that says a lot about your culture. So, when I was asked about a time during the interview to talk about dissent, I thought, well, there was one time where we had spent a great amount of time planning out Leadership Principles and whatnot and interviewing a senior engineer. And the thing that upset me was that after the interview happened, everybody ignored what was said in the interview or what wasn't said in the interview. And they started backsliding saying, oh we should hire this person because they worked at this company or because they've got these life experiences and they've worked overseas in these many countries. Completely ignoring everything about the lack of cultural fit or the lack of communication ability. And unfortunately, they overrode my advice and they hired the person and they ended up having to fire him after six weeks. And the whole thing there was, this is part of the reason why I want to join a place like Amazon, because that would never fly, at a place like Amazon. And the guy had been essentially mute. The interviewer had been essentially mute the entire call and he just broke, he just started cracking up. He just started cracking up. He was probably thinking this is totally amateur hour.

Nick: It's so interesting to see how you bring this very diverse experience to Amazon and it's up to the Amazonians to evaluate this experience and determine if you're a fit, vis-à-vis the Leadership Principles. And they made that that determination once. I'm sure if you are willing to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt and keep applying there, I'm sure they'll do that again. And it's going to be up to you if you're going to say ‘yes’ the second time around.

A different question. What would you do differently in hindsight. Now, if you could talk to your pre-Amazon interview self now. What are some of the things you going to change, you think if?

Guest: If I was allowed to travel back in time and coach my former self, there's three or four things I could cover. The first thing I’d cover is, like we mentioned before, the leveling issue. The second I’d cover is probably the delivery, like the concision. The third thing I would say would probably be the selection and being a little more tight about the role that I’d be looping for. And the fourth thing, like what you said, was about rejection, which I want to expand upon.

So, the first thing about leveling is that I think there's a lot of people, and I would put my old self in this bucket, they don’t want to go from being a VP of Finance to being a Senior Financial Analyst or a Finance Manager. And I think one of the first things you taught me was that Amazon does a great job of paying people and giving access to interesting projects, interesting co-workers and quite frankly having a large impact whether that be measured operationally or financially. And so, a VP of Finance at a fast-growth startup might be making the same amount of money as a Senior Financial Analyst at Amazon, but the difference is the person at Amazon is wielding a sword that is covering a hundred-x revenue or a hundred-x expenses. So that's not a good reason why someone shouldn't apply for a Senior Financial Analyst role.

The second thing I would say is concision. I think that over time, I've learned that there was sort of an insecurity of, I want to prove myself that I was there, in the trenches. That I'm not riding off someone's coat-tails. I was the one making the decisions and I'm not trying to take someone's work. And that sort of lead to the long windedness. And so that's been cured.

I think the third thing I would say is, the selection of the whole SBA role. And I don't know other candidates, what their experience has been, but if Amazon is asking questions about, hey, you know your resume screams finance, are you sure you want to apply for this. It doesn't really matter whether or not I feel comfortable about the job, whether I'm confident in my ability. They have their own way of thinking, based on viewing hundreds, if not thousands, of past candidates and employees. And so maybe in hindsight, I should have declined the offer and say, you know, I'll wait for a finance role to open up.

And then, the last thing I'd say is rejection. You talked about how things don't work out and that I should be happy about my preparation. I think that two years ago, I probably would have needed that kind of pep talk. But now I've come to realize that qualified and experienced candidates get rejected for all kinds of legitimate reasons outside of their control. It might be COVID. In this case, by way of example, the jobs are getting filled in six weeks. It was still posted after five months, I just happened to notice that. And what that told me was that they probably cut the budgetary authority because of COVID. Or there were situations, I've had situations where I've had phone screens that didn't move forward, even though the interviewers seem to like me a lot, because, I found out later on, just by happenstance, that they already filled the position with an internal candidate that got on site before I did. Someone that is rejected from Amazon, if they have all of the other qualities and all the other experiences, one or two rejections shouldn't dissuade them.

Nick: I completely agree. I can't say enough how much I agree with everything you said. Just to touch base on a couple of the major points you made, starting with concision and being succinct. I completely agree with you. Just answer, it's a best practice just to answer the question you’re asked and move on and shut up. It's natural human behavior, as you mentioned, for us to keep talking and keep seeking that nod of approval or the interviewer to chime in, and give us some sort of validation. But that potentially could backfire. So yes, keeping it very behavioral, your response behavioral, keeping it data-centric and just shutting up is the best remedy to that. And then the second, among many others, important thing you said, was how you have to have faith in yourself. You have to believe in your preparation. You have to stick to the mental framework. You have to stick to the process. And if something is outside of your control, then don't let it rattle you, as you said. There could be a myriad of reasons why they elected not to hire you for this business role. It could be most likely that maybe COVID got in the way and downsized their budgets. Another reason could be, the hiring manager really loved your fit with the Leadership Principles and with the culture, but the role required a bit more functional depth and he wasn't able to dissuade the rest of the interview loop that you're the best applicant for that. It could be a number of other reasons that are not at all reflective of you being a poor interviewee or candidate. And again, if you just keep knocking on the door sooner or later, it's going to open.

Let's see, a couple of more questions. Recently, we've started, we've adopted this new format where we ask previous guests on the podcast to come up with questions for the follow-on guests. So, our previous guest, her name is Pam. She came up with a question, and I'm sure you can appreciate this because I think it fits your story very nicely, why do you keep doing this. And Pam story for those of you folks who are listening, if you don't remember, she was similarly to Martin, running up the hill over and over and over again. And she was recycled and rejected and whatnot. And eventually she got hired and her question for our next guest, Mr. Martin, is what makes you want to do it, over and over again. What is keeping you coming back after you got rejected?

Guest: I think that question is kind of broken up into three different layers. The first thing is, there's sort of an implication there that if someone gets rejected, they should be dissuaded and we sort of covered about why I don't feel that way anymore.

The second thing is, do the reasons to why you originally applied, are they relevant to your situation. Are they still valid? And the third thing is, is there something I can do today that makes me a more qualified candidate than the last time. And if the answers to these three layers are positive, there's no reason to stop.

And so, I have very specific reasons for wanting to join Amazon. One of them is the fact that they have an established culture, which is something that is unique, especially for a company of that size, to have literally hundreds of thousands of people singing from the same hymn sheet. That just creates so much predictability and so much more performance. I've seen what happens when you don't have a culture or don't have the right culture, in a 20-person company. Having the access to the people, having access to that kind of impact, having a new experience that I didn't have because I've always worked in chaotic entrepreneurial roles. And when I did work in Fortune 500 companies, they were low-level operational roles. So that would’ve been a huge lift. Those reasons have not changed.

So, I would so go work there. And the other thing is, is there a way for me to make myself a better candidate. I talked about, one of the things I mentioned was the lack of experience with continuous improvement and Six Sigma. Actually, I recently went through a Six Sigma Black Belt program, and I think that if I was to face that challenge again, I would answer very differently. So that's what keeps me coming back.

Nick: It's great. It's a great message. I can't resist but just ask the question, even more poignantly. In your case, in light of the rejection in the second loop, do you regret turning down the first offer, the offer from the first loop?

Guest: Now that you mention it, that question was asked in a very polite, indirect way. But that question sort of came up in the second loop. I would say this, I get asked this question, whether indirectly or directly, very often over the last year. I think about it not from a standpoint of regret or emotion, but just more of strategy and analysis. And the answer always comes back the same.

I made a decision with the best information I had, at the time, so I shouldn't regret it. That's an Amazonian Principle, right? But even with the benefit of hindsight, I don't regret it. The reason why I went over there, is because I wanted to demonstrate certain skills in an entrepreneurial environment, in a startup. I wanted to be the captain of my own ship and I wanted to be surrounded by very highly collaborative, very intelligent, very humble people and that were literally from all over the world, from different walks of life. I know there was a comment that was made that things didn't work out for me in the program. In a way, things did work out because I grew something in the hardware space that I had no experience with beforehand. We made a tremendous amount of progress. We secured LOIs from manufacturers, we got great advisors with very strong backgrounds to help us out, to make us introductions into global organizations. And I, now, have people in my network that are literally holders of Guinness World Records and were rocket scientists.

There isn't a week that goes by where I'm not on the phone with at least two of the people from my cohort and two other people from other branches, other cohorts in the startup accelerator network.

Nick: I want to underscore a couple of things from everything you said, which makes complete sense. Those couple of things are: one, never feel regretful, and two, Amazon will always want to hire someone like you. They will always need the capacity and the Leadership Principles’ fit and the never-say-die attitude of someone like you on their team, should you be willing to continue to run up the hill. And it sounds like you are. And if anything, actually, now, that you keep reinventing yourself, and as you mentioned, you keep adding to your arsenal of these, both, professional experiences and functional certifications and improvement. Now, if anything, you’re becoming eligible for even more diverse or maybe even more higher-level positions than the first time around. Maybe now, your applying for an L6 role is going to not feel as daunting as the first time around. Or maybe at some point, you can even consider applying for an L7 position. So, I cannot agree more with the fact that you should never day die. Amazon will always need people like you, Martin. And as long as you find it in you, and you have plenty of that stamina and that self-motivation to keep knocking on the door, good things are going to happen, sooner or later.

Last question. Now, it's your turn to pay it forward. What question should I ask the next guest of our podcast?

Guest: I assume that you’re going to interview someone and that they've already received an offer or they've already joined Amazon. I guess my question to them would be this: anyone who gets in to Amazon and stays there for at least a year, probably has an abundance of competitive options. So, my question to him or her is: if you weren't at Amazon for any reason, either because you left or because you declined their offer, what organization would you want to end up at instead, and why that organization.

Nick: That’s a great question. I don't think we've ever looked at it from the other, from the different point of view of what else is out there other than Amazon. Because the entire purpose of this program is to help people get into Amazon. And another one of the benefits of having you join us today is just giving us this this very different and broader perspective.

So, Martin, again, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time and talking to us and the very best of luck to you. I know good things are going to happen.

Guest: Appreciate it Nick, and I appreciate your continued support.

Nick: Thank you. Great. So, everyone else, all our dear listeners, thank you so much for joining us for another episode of the Amazon Bound podcast. Please, let us know if you liked the episode and, please, give us any review or any feedback, whether publicly or emailing us. We do appreciate it. Please, subscribe to our podcast and best of luck. Stay safe in these difficult days. We'll talk soon. Bye.

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